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  #1  
Old 03-25-2010, 08:31 PM
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Mike Anders Mike Anders is offline
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Default HELP with the Ray Cover Template

I got my Ray Cover template and I'm having trouble understanding how it works. I got the suggestion to buy it here on the forum. What I'm doing with it is western bright cut and what I'm used to using a flat with 45 degree face and 15 degree heal. The template has you setting up like a square and I tried that but I don't think I did it right. So any help understanding the template would be very appreciated. Thanks, Mike Anders
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Old 03-25-2010, 08:50 PM
Ray Cover Ray Cover is offline
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Default Re: HELP with the Ray Cover Template

That is correct.

You get more clearance on your graver if you raise the corners off the bottom.

The only difference between my squares and flats is the heel. You will notice that you no longer have to watch the bottom corners to keep them from scraping out on an outside arch. They are no longer there to have to watch.

To flatten the sides of the face lay the template on its side and flatten each side.

You may also want to put a relief taper on the underside of the back corner of the heel for even more clearance.

Ray
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Old 03-25-2010, 09:02 PM
Ray Cover Ray Cover is offline
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Default Re: HELP with the Ray Cover Template

Here is a pic of the bottom of the graver. You can see the heel on the front under the face. The long triangle is the relief taper.

To make this relief taper:

Taper the sides to square them up and make the graver the width you wish.

Turn the graver 90 degrees and grind this relief taper on using the same method as tapering the sides.

This can be done before or after the heel is put on.

Ray
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File Type: jpg graver.jpg (47.2 KB, 162 views)
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Old 03-25-2010, 09:05 PM
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Default Re: HELP with the Ray Cover Template

Ray is there anyway to see a pic of your graver? The templates are really no brainer and I did it just like the other templates but it seems to run off in the direction you have the graver telted when doing a bright cut. I can run a take a picture of the one I sharpened if you want. Thanks, Mike A.
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Old 03-25-2010, 09:06 PM
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Default Re: HELP with the Ray Cover Template

WHOOPS! I didn't see your pic. Sorry, Mike
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  #6  
Old 03-25-2010, 09:11 PM
Ray Cover Ray Cover is offline
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Default Re: HELP with the Ray Cover Template

Does that help?

Basically the face and sides are the same as a traditional flat at the cutting surfaces. But by rotation the blank you get rid of any corners that potentially create drag and scrapes.
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  #7  
Old 03-25-2010, 09:19 PM
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Default Re: HELP with the Ray Cover Template

Ray I think I'm almost there. How do you get the tapers? Is it by eye. Mike
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Old 03-25-2010, 09:24 PM
Ray Cover Ray Cover is offline
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Default Re: HELP with the Ray Cover Template

Lay the template over on its side. You may need to push your graver blank out farther or raise the height of the block depending on how long of a taper angle you want.

Ray
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  #9  
Old 03-25-2010, 09:58 PM
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Default Re: HELP with the Ray Cover Template

Ray, I got it now. Many THANKS for the help. Mike A.
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  #10  
Old 03-27-2010, 05:07 AM
SEngraver SEngraver is offline
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Default Re: HELP with the Ray Cover Template

Hi Ray,Steve

I request,with all due respect, pictures of Rays shaped graver points, please, if possible posted on the Tools page.That will assist all patrons viewing the templates in my opinion.
I was contemplating on acquiring the taper template.
Thanks
SE

Ps.By seeing pictures of the Carl.B points, and the instructions,I was able to make all his points,the pics helped a lot.
No offence is intended.If any apologies are offered in advance.
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Old 03-27-2010, 08:07 AM
Ray Cover Ray Cover is offline
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Default Re: HELP with the Ray Cover Template

SE,

Your never going to offend anyone here with a good idea

Today I have to help coach my two daughters' YHEC shooting team and tomorrow my youngest has a trap shoot that I have to take her to. It is not likely I will be able to get to it in the next couple days.

Sometime early in the coming week I will try to get that done. I will do it as a tutorial thread here so all Steve has to do is copy and paste.

Ray
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  #12  
Old 03-28-2010, 04:35 AM
SEngraver SEngraver is offline
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Default Re: HELP with the Ray Cover Template

Hi Ray,
Thanks ,a tutorial will great and it will be a privilege.There is no hurry,next week is fine.You have a busy schedule and we understand that.
Family first !! I too am a family man and will second that anytime.Wish you guys a nice weekend.
Much Appreciated
SE
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  #13  
Old 02-03-2011, 11:46 AM
mandomaniac mandomaniac is offline
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Default Re: HELP with the Ray Cover Template

Hello folks,
Have been devouring the amazing amount of information available here....and appreciate it greatly! Just beginning to scratch the surface (pun intended!)
I am pondering which templates to acquire and have to agree with SE......pictures are worth 1000 words. Don't know if this thread got dropped or if Ray's pics got posted elsewhere. Maybe he never got back to it (?)
Someone please point me in the right direction.....
Thanks for sharing your information, Ray, it means a lot to folks just starting out as well as experienced engravers!
Tom
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  #14  
Old 02-03-2011, 11:58 AM
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Default Re: HELP with the Ray Cover Template

I have the two DVDs of Ray and are wonderful
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  #15  
Old 02-03-2011, 12:37 PM
Ray Cover Ray Cover is offline
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Default Re: HELP with the Ray Cover Template

Hey Tom,

I have been absolutely swamped the past several months. What free time I have had I have spent remodeling here at the house or with my kids. That is why I have been absent from the forum so much lately.

I am currently working on a two part tutorial on sharpening. The first part is a free part on how to use the Lindsay/Cover templates and the other part is a detail and in depth paid tutorial on sharpening in general. Unfortunately, I am having a hard time getting the spare time to make a lot of progress on that tutorial. Hopefully I will be able to get some time to finish the free part and get it up for Steve fairly soon.

Ray
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  #16  
Old 02-03-2011, 01:12 PM
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Default Re: HELP with the Ray Cover Template

I am looking forward to it as well Ray, thanks in advance for the effort.
Willem
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  #17  
Old 02-03-2011, 01:53 PM
mandomaniac mandomaniac is offline
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Default Re: HELP with the Ray Cover Template

Hello Ray,
Trust me....I can relate all too well to having MUCH on one's plate!
I'm sure many (definitely me!) will be looking forward to its completion and thank you for taking the time to share your expertise. Time is the commodity we all seem to have too little of. I caught one signature in a thread here (apologies for not recalling whose) that I can try to paraphrase....."don't spend time, invest it" Good words to follow!
Thanks again,
Tom
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  #18  
Old 02-03-2011, 02:43 PM
Ray Cover Ray Cover is offline
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Default Re: HELP with the Ray Cover Template

This is about all I have time to post right now but this should give you the idea.
My template work just like everyone else's. Use the tube to measure the length sticking out of the template and grind on the stone.

Below are pics of the square graver templates in use. Just like with Steve's regular templates the big one makes the face and heels and the little one does the tapers. This tapers at abut 5 degrees to give you a long graceful taper on your gravers.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg face.jpg (84.2 KB, 0 views)
File Type: jpg heel.jpg (99.9 KB, 0 views)
File Type: jpg taper.jpg (81.0 KB, 0 views)
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  #19  
Old 02-03-2011, 02:46 PM
Ray Cover Ray Cover is offline
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Default Re: HELP with the Ray Cover Template

below are pics of a background flat, a brightcut flat and square graver.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg backflat.jpg (30.2 KB, 0 views)
File Type: jpg brightflat.jpg (56.1 KB, 0 views)
File Type: jpg square graver.jpg (34.9 KB, 0 views)
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  #20  
Old 02-04-2011, 08:33 AM
mandomaniac mandomaniac is offline
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Default Re: HELP with the Ray Cover Template

Thanks Ray! I'll try to get my bearings from these pics. Hard to wrap my old mind around some of the geometry. A hefty dose of experience would help! HAHAHAHA
Truth be told, I have had a GRS dual angle jig, but struggle with the different graver angles it seems most pros use. The jig is not as finely graduated as needed. I suppose coming close will work (nothing like trial and error) but boy, these templates sure seem to make it like falling off a log!!! Might have to see what the piggy bank can handle.....
Tom
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  #21  
Old 02-04-2011, 11:47 AM
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Default Re: HELP with the Ray Cover Template

Sorry Ray but I still don't get it.
When I look at your brightcut flat I don't seen any difference with the one I grind with the Lindsay template.
I watched the templates on the pictures in the toolpage and they are look a likes to me or am I wrong.
And I still don't get what the taper template is doing.
Perhaps when I buy one and get to work with it it's more easy to understand.
I like to get rid of those scraping and dragging flats so I think I have to spend time on this.
Willem
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  #22  
Old 02-04-2011, 02:24 PM
Ray Cover Ray Cover is offline
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Default Re: HELP with the Ray Cover Template

Willem,

If your talking about Steve's flat and knife combo template your right. There is very little if any difference in the face and heel geometries. The big difference is in the sides. The taper template with Steve's combo template produces a tapered side which I do not like for bright cutting.

If you already have that combo template your do not need mine. I would just get my taper template to use with Steve's combo template so you can get straight sides which I like a whole lot better for bright cutting.

Ray
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  #23  
Old 02-04-2011, 03:03 PM
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Willem Parel Willem Parel is offline
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Default Re: HELP with the Ray Cover Template

Okay Ray, Thank you for this advise.
I will purchage your taper template and experiŽnd with it.
Willem
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