Lindsay or Grs system

[Daniel Houwer]

Hello all engravers.

I'm trying to deside wich system to get to do my engravings and settings.
Especially stone setting with the system are inportant.
Do any of you have a lot of experience with stonesetting with the lindsay versus grs?
In Holland it is easy to try the grs system but the Lindsay is not present yet I believe.

Does anyone know of a Lindsay system in Holland?
Or can anyone tell me about theire experiance with setting stone's with the Lindsay system?

Thanks in advance,

Daniel

[Daniel Houwer]

Daniel, you should reed a bit more, check the post of CO2 Foot Pedal info on page 2, Not yet a beginner.. You will get a lot of info from there.

Oops again, That's an informatife thread!
Still hope to get some stonesetters experience.

[stan]

Hi Daniel ,
I have set stones with a GRS system for almost 20 years.. not long ago I purchased a Lindsay Palm Control Air Graver ( clasic handpiece ) What a difference !! .. I saved about 50% of time doing settings . I'm able to remove smoothly large chuncks of metal by one pass instead of 5 or 6 passes in one place . Not to mention, less noise and unnesesary vibrations which are not the best thing for your body and ears . The Linsay tool and GRS is uncomparable . The first one is superior the second one become clumsy to me. See post from other day http://www.engravingforum.com/showthread.php?t=1334
all the best !
Stan Jarmolowicz

[Steve Shepherd]

I have to say that the Lindsay Graver is superior to the GRS system. I have both in my store and have not used the Grs for two years. The reason I like the Lindsay over the Grs is the adjustability and fi’nesse it has. With the Lindsay you have much more control and with the Grs system it is more like a hammer handpiece. I do stone setting most of the day and it is so much smoother for bead and bright cut stone setting as well as channel setting. For jewelry engraving it is just sweet, combined with the Lindsay graver point and I prefer a 90 degree V for all my work.

Hope this helps…Steve Shepherd

[Daniel Houwer]

Thanks a lot Stan and Steve!

Made my choice. I'm going to order a Lindsay graver. Funny thing because a month ago I was sure to go with grs. Now there is no doubt left.
Now the budget is a problem. I do have the funds to by the PC classic with everything I think I need, but that would about drain my reserve.

My want list,

Classic handpiece with supple black rubber handle (without controller) $995,
Portability, so I'll need the CO2 regulator for CO2 cartridges and cylinders $142
25g CO2 adapter for fitting threaded neck 25 gram CO2 cartridges $8

Foot control, idle adjust and double regulators; $249
Includes eight feet of tubing with a 1/4"NPT fitting to attach to air compressor. Auxiliary output for rotary handpiece pedal or PalmControl can be adapted to regulator on the right.

Or the PalmControl Handle without handpiece: $1695


Should I start with a footcontrole, or go straight for the ultimate, palmcontrole?
As I think, the palm controle use's even less air then the classic with a footpedle.

I just love the simplicity of the tool. Just a handpiece, a tube and an air suply. Certainly the co2 powered thingy looks fabulous to me, because I get around somewhat.

It's just that I've been pushing a footpedal for the last 18 years and have no idea about palm controle.

Can anyone advise here? I'd be greatfull very much. But I'm spinning around the final choice :willy_nilly:
Realy need your advise!

Thanks in advance.

Daniel

[Dave P]

Hi Daniel,

Like Stan and Steve, I have both in my shop, and have about twenty years with the GRS tools. I got the Classic about six months ago. No competition at all. It's like the difference between a driving a Ford Station Wagon and carving turns in a Porsche Turbo 911.

Most (like 90%) of the work I do with the Lindsay is standard goldsmith stuff, stone setting, burnishing, driving pins and rivets, pounding platinum investment out of crevices, raising beads, etc. As you said, it is much simpler to operate. One of the biggest differences I have noticed is maintenance. I used to have take the 901 handpiece apart and clean it about once every couple of weeks. I've taken the Classic down once (which takes about two or three seconds), and that was really because I figured it must be getting dirty, and I'd rather clean it now than right in the middle of a job. It was fine, and I haven't messed with it since. It just keeps on rockin.

The other major, huge difference is in the smoothness, especially at very low power settings. The 901 would start humming and then take off. Really a pain in the butt when I was doing fine detail work under the scope. The Classic just purrs and then purrs a little harder. If you set the speed of the rotary valve on the GraverMax very high, it would start to float (and stop hammering), like valve float in an engine. That was also a major pain. With the Classic, you get just the power you need, no more, no less. Need more power? Twist the adjustment ring. Need even more? Pull off the handle, drop the piston out, slap in the tungsten piston (which is missing from your list, by the way, don't forget it), slip the handle back on, and start hammering away on that 18k white gold bezel.

If you are used to foot pedals, the Classic will serve you well. Ten minutes of getting to know you time, and you won't even notice. I haven't tried the Palm Control, so I guess I'm not really the expert about how much better it might be, but I have had nothing but good times with the plain old Classic. Just wish Steve would crank out a burl wood handle or two. In his spare time, of course. :thumbsup: (Just kidding, Steve)

You won't be sorry for your purchase. After you have it a while, try out a 901 on a GraverMach. You'll know you chose well.

Here's a piece I just entered today in the Jeweler's Passion Award Contest. Did it all with the Lindsay Classic. Couldn't have done it nearly as well as with any other tool. It really has helped my work a lot. It'll help you too, I promise.

Dave

[jimzim75]

Hi Daniel,
I would personally tell you. The Palmcotrol is the right choice.I been doing
stone setting for 30 years and this is today technology at it best.
It is a joy to use.

Talk to you later,
Jim

[stan]

Daniel ,

this is my personal advice , ; check first if the small CO2 cartridges are the same in Europe and USA .
.. my intuition tells me : they are not !
..and with tight budget at the moment you want to buy by priority order .
Purchase Classic hand piece with Palm Control . This way you don't have mess with foot control pedal and additional tubings . But if you can't afford palm control the pedal- foot control is still far less to deal with than GRS box and other bookie things on your bench . Later on you can convert your hand piece in to palm control. The palm Control is not only less complicated stuff to carry around ( only one tubbing between CO2 or air supply and hand piece ) but is also finest tune up system , in another words you can set up very fine idle and gentle start . There is nothing in the world which work so fine like this system . ,
What you really need for start is :
1. Classic hand piece ...is up to you if you can afford Palm Control or not ? .. ( i would give up the computer for that )
2. Pressure regulator ..i think is $75 which you mount on your bench .
those two things purchase from Steve Lindsay , is already prepared with all the fitting you need .
3. Then you need to find out about CO2 cylinder in your country and another ( first stage ) pressure regulator which will have standard fit to the CO2 cylinder ... (also in your country ) Buy a big cylinder which will last a month or two before you need to refill . Or purchase air compressor and Lindsay pressure regulator will work on any pressure supply regardless if is air or CO2.
The small cylinders are good for backup when you have no electricity or your main CO2 cylinder empty , Or portability when you need to work some other shop . The small 25 grams cylinder last only 20 minutes and if is not use completely more likely will leak out over few days . Is not practical for professional work .
So.. if i would be in your shoes , I would get the little bigger cylinder the 20 OZ . one as back up , and proper regulator for it which is also at Lindsay tool list . Is beautifully precisely made and i remember right ; it cost somewhere around $ 175 .
..But again check first if you can purchase those cylinders in Holland and be able to refill them .
... is not priority for now when you have tight budget .

Good luck ,
Stan

[Daniel Houwer]

Thank's :smile5:

That helps a lot.

Dave, thats a fine looking ring You made there!
Really a beauty. Not to thin like this one. But customer's king.


I won't forget the tungsten piston, thank you for pointing that out.
Then there is the Burlwood handle, that is the first thing that made me want the Lindsay. It looks perfect on the tool so I think I'll just give that one for my birthday or something. Is it just a piece of wood or does it contain screwthread and things?
Jim, your ring is a classic beauty and looks like it could have been made for a princess a hundred years ago.
And Stan, I've looked up a suplyer of co2 cylinders and they look the same
http://www.paintballsuppliesleeuward...op/home&cat=22
But I will get some more info on that but I do think all about paintball is imported from America.
I've got a nice compressor that seems perfect for the job.

So thank you all for your highly valued info.

Daniel

[Ray Cover]

Paintball equipment is standardized so if you buy it through a paintball supply the threads should be the same. The thread size is the thing you have to watch.

Other sources for co2 tanks are brewery supply houses. The 5 and 20 pound tanks are used for pressurizing beer kegs. The larger tanks are going to be more cost effective too. But you may need an adapter if the threads don't match. That should be an easy thing to find if needed.

Ray